All who have enriched themselves in the name of serving God and on the backs of the working people are suspect, as that is certainly not what we were called to, nor a reflection of the sacrificial love of Jesus who came to serve. No more Moses behind a veil. In case this has escaped your awareness, most folks on TWW have experienced abuse in churches. When God leaves, it always becomes about something elseits amazing. The beat goes on until Jesus returns. In 2021, Camp Harvest was sold to a ministry to continue the maintenance and ongoing work of ministry to young people, youth ministry, and camp events. There are many claims on this blog but very little proof from original sources, only alleged copies and pastes. Oh, they couldnt get away with that completely. Do you consider the primary reason for being asked to serve as an elder was that you were a strong donor since you say you did not meet Biblical qualifications for that office? A person who thinks they are qualified, is someone who may need to take some time to discern whether thats true. If anything, out of all the ashes has come a humbling of my spirit.No longer do I feel like I know, or need to know, or could even remotely grasp the answers to so much of life. There were kindergarten through 5th graders AND many of us parents / employees, who did not know it was going to be shown. There is no question that MacDonald was running the elders. And it is bad form to hijack a thread to comment on a topic when asked not to. POIMEN, is translated to English as either pastor or shepherd. A friend became nearly apoplectic when I tried to explain this. husband of one wife Youre not alone elastigirl, theres no way I could watch it either. It is somewhat inevitable, as their theology asserts that the lost are not so much lost as rejected and doomed by eternal decree from the get go. You and the other TWW regulars feel like family. If GP will cave to SBC outrage over a tweet in order to GET the contract, what else might they quietly cave on for the sake of KEEPING the contract or for getting the next one? Instead, the whole thing was a Yes Men (and Im not talking about the performance artist group) operation for the aggrandizement of James McDonald. Max: And to link them together as a Body of Christ, each one uniquely gifted to be a part of the whole something the institutional church just doesnt appear to get.Whose job is the ministry?Every believer has a part!When we separate believers into clergy vs. laity, pulpit vs. pew, us vs. them failing to equip and mobilize the saints to do the work of the ministry we miss what God intended for His Church and fall short of living in the Kingdom of Heaven here and now.Jesus talked a LOT about living in the Kingdom we would do well to read His words living in the church doesnt always mean living in the Kingdom.Based on my 70-year snapshot of the institutional church, theres a vast difference in what Christ describes vs. what we have put together in this thing we call church. So this notion of a pastor as single leader being completely made up well after the Bible was written, simply not biblical at all, purely cultural tradition, I think youd be safe to say that said book most certainly does not indicate that one assuming an unbiblical, made-up official office does not need to be heeded, but rather corrected, censured or even disciplined and thrown out of the church for their audacity and biblical ignorance. GreekEpigraph: there is no mechanism at all for pew peons to do as you note and hold elders accountable for anything. He promised never to leave me, If I were you, I would review what happened at Mars Hill and the Mark Driscoll implosion. God has shown great favor and grace to Harvest Bible Chapel, allowing us to plant churches, host in thriving mens, womens events, and student gatherings, and creating ministries centering around outreach in our communities. Apparently, many pastors have opted to preach the gospel for the wrong reasons .. to toss out the name of Jesus now and then while they work their deception to benefit themselves. My name is on all my posts and frankly I find your whining annoying. blameless He has directed and produced over a dozen . I dont see how you could get any further from the mark in your comment. . God will not, will not let you go. Law Prof: Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. and bring me another beer. The famous TV series director is a prominent name in the entertainment industry. Consistent with your recreational activities, you took a gamble and lost. I was a strong donor who loved the church and served in multiple areasI was in a good place spirituallybut I didnt meet the qualifications. Years ago when I was experiencing a dark period spiritually someone said to me, Hang onto God! In response without thinking these words came out of my mouth (and I cant help but think it was the Holy Spirit speaking), I cant hang onto God right now but He will hang onto me. Thanks and God bless to all the TWW regulars! words like unsaved, which always has the connotation of someone to be wary of. They will now export it across the US. I cant put them in the same category as Jesus himself, nor should I. Its why I like to go to what Jesus actually said and did. Children were crying, looking around with fear on their faces, teachers were trying to physically comfort some by embracing them, and even removed some children. If they depend entirely on the good will or humility of the elder-elects themselves and (no-teeth-allowed, no mechanism for) church members having a say? In a godly biblical hierarchy, what would flow downhill would be love and care. Having read the explanations of some of the associates and enablers who have pulled away from HBC, this does seem to have been part of why they put up with the wrongness coming from the top. Regarding the tragic murder of that bear, I wouldnt be too rough on JMac perhaps he was using that as a witness to draw in rough boys from the streets of Chicago. So, as you imply, in their heart of hearts they dont really give a big hoot about reading the precious words in red, let alone the rest of Scripture. In fact, not saying something wouldve been considered enabling and a betrayal of those being hurt.. Another campus grew out of the prayers and intercession of a core group in Chicagos North Shore. Here is a short article describing the NT words used for the offices: His new incognito Floridian Santa Claus look wont stop this. this time facilatated by the internet, just like the last one was with the printing press.. Well, age doesnt always equal wisdom, but it helps! Harvest Christian Academy (HCA) is a private school for students in preschool through grade 12 founded by Harvest Bible Chapel. Bad decisions lead to pain. Not only were the target audience all Christians (from the above buyouts), the would-be Soul-Winners went into shock after the intensity of the showing. For our setting and ministries, it would be very difficult. in talking with my octogenarian missionary-kid dad, i hear words like the heathen (it makes me sick, yet i love him with all my heart and soul). TS00: Agreed. Shouldnt we trust our churchs leadership?, But as of this moment, the vast majority of James s closest friends and ministry leaders over the decades have said nothing publicly about these crises.. John: When I now go to a church, I want to speak with elders. Oh, they all say how sorry they are, and admit to one degree or another some of the faults of James MacDonald. He promised never to leave me, Yet the first line in that post was that Dee would not allow comments. The big issue I have is with the idea that there is this one leader, a high office that this one guy occupies in a church called the pastor. Good Grief. Living in what the people of Chicagoland call "the northwest suburbs" theologian Scot McKnight and his daughter, teacher Laura Barringer had a front row seat when things began unraveling at Harvest Bible Chapel and Willow Creek Community Church, and furthermore were acquainted with many of the people who became a part of our daily Twitter and blog feeds about both stories. Revamping the financial transparency laws for 501-c3 religious entities would be a good start. There are some 30,000 Christian denominations and parachurch organizations in the world. but i have gained a newfound joy in being a member of the human race. Its obvious that theres not enough scintilla of evidence to convict most of them of being Christian. I do know from reading the Acts of Perpetua and Felicity (said to have been written in 203) that church leaders argued with each other. Dallas Jenkins (born July 25, 1975) is an American film and television director, writer and film producer. "I'm going to make mistakes. Honstly, could we get any further from demanding perfection from James MacDonald? Just let go of the reins, lil woman, and submit to your God-given, masculine authorities . Fred not only took out debt to fund new purchases, he took out additional debt on already encumbered buildings. More Campus News . It obviously took courage for you to write it. TS00: That community is you all, for whom I am so grateful! But, I aint Paul, so I suppose I will just have to wait and see how this sorts itself out in eternity. The film released in theaters in 2010 and has been a hit on DVD. Then, you proceeded to brag on social media about how you werent releasing your full statement and had convinced other men with statements to do the same. That incident was only the tip of the iceberg. birdoftheair: Size, style, structure, statements, staff..have not guaranteed us safe and healthy churches. I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. (Protestia) Dallas Jenkins, son of "Left Behind" author Jerry Jenkins, and Director of the smash-hit TV show The Chosen continued to double down on controversial comments he made last year about Mormons (Latter Day Saints, ie LDS) and Jesus loving the same Jesus, appearing on Ruslan KD's channel and again insisting that some of his Mormon friends Im certainly not an Apostle chosen by the hand of Jesus as Paul was nor a prophet, or a son of a prophet. Our inaugural ministry in the heart of Chicago began on September 20, 2009, with a mobile campus that met for worship on Sunday nights at a school in Wicker Park. The place is not worth saving. And this being heard is not merely some desire for gossip or vengeance, but a desire to confront evil and protect the rest of the naive flock from being manipulated, abused and otherwise taken advantage of. True repentance requires owning up to all you have done, letting the light of truth in to the dark closets that have been hiding the wicked deeds of the past. But isnt the model you commented on the same model that HBC followed and totally bollixed up? Here are some of my running thoughts of the statement. Unless, trying very hard to see it from the inside' their vision of God, whom they reckon they were imitating, is more arbitrary, capricious, violent and domineering than mine. As if someone who chooses to remain anonymous has no right to speak. Im of course speaking about Paul. The price has been paid, sin and death vanquished, and all may come to the Son for meat and drink with no money and no payment. This will always happen, there is no way to avoid it. Cut corners in the case of MacDonald, Hybels, Driscoll, and assorted others meant they decided it was OK to be a little wicked if a little good could come from it. These charlatans cannot be allowed to get away with this. Because MacDonald earned it. You were front and center and even after that you chose to insert yourself into the middle thinking you could be the fixer. Its been about the cash for the last 20 years! Thats it! Dallas Jenkins produced the independent feature Hometown Legend at the age of 25 and shepherded it to distribution by Warner Brothers. As shortages in food and hygiene items started to grow in the Chicago community as well as widespread layoffs, Harvests Compassion ministry expanded. As of 2020, they now gather as City Line Church. They dont want you to have real relationships; the systems designed to prevent them. Made a lot of money, enjoyed the fruits of fame that was a product of his professed following of Jesus. I read your posts as a searing, agonized, utterly sincere *cri de ceour. JDV: This verse came to mind: For it is the time for the judgment to have begun from the house of God; and if from us first, what will be the outcome of those disobeying the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17) The business-first model that seems so pervasive and knocks down just about any scrutiny until there is videotaped evidence would seem to fit somewhere in that spectrum, no? Ken F (aka Tweed): Are we any better? I realize people are suffering from pain and confusion, but now is not the time to be silent. Remember, free speech is about what the government can and cant do, doesnt have diddly to do with a private forum. Unless it was a danger to someone. For a son dishonors his father, a daughter rises up against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a mans enemies are the members of his own household. I LOVED what I believed that Harvest Bible Chapel wasa vibrant church that existed to bring glory to Jesus Christ. Every single person there loves Harvest so much that they cant leave?? (Many self-claimed Reformed do not really know or embrace the God their theology demands, so its not an issue.) And just because there is a list of qualifications doesnt mean that men wont lie to gain access, or construct a pseudo religion to hide in. Not even fit to be chair of my department at Average State U. I thought my disgust for James MacDonald was as low as it could go, but when I saw that photo, it took another nosedive. First question: when was this letter written and sent? And now hes trying to explain to all of us how the 2000 people that left and who were shunned by the Harvesr machine that we somehow need to let the Lord work to save Harvest? Blaming bloggers and the media for having bad form for discussing the issues, but then admitting that they are true? The key is to have a system where checks and balances are in place. Ive felt sins breakers dashing, IDK what the other XLT staffers and Elders are waiting for, but they will be judged if these wolves are allowed to set up new lairs due to their silence. * Gaga sees them as self-righteous. Law Prof: I dont know if its just that I got old enough and wise enough to start seeing it or cynical and hardened as I got older, but after going through the 1980s and 1990s able to find what I thought were decent churches, for over a decade I havent to find a place that isnt abusive, heretical, led by a narcissist or all the the above. Of course, the big jump you and those who make such claims make is from a shepherd/overseer/elder who is to look after, protect and provide for the flock to a paid, authoritarian ruler. To the American church which is playing games with the gospel in both pulpit and pew the Apostle John still shouts Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues (Revelation 18:4). . Cudos for your honesty. be a spiritual failure, The fact that its not supported by a single word of evidence is strong evidence that whats being said is entirely true. Still plenty of room on the downside, I reckon. Who are you to tell people to shut up anyway? Thats a smoking crater of a response. Rich: I just know that if one of the callers in my English Country Dance or Contra Dance communities was screaming at people or even talking in a consistently rude way, that would not stand for a day, let alone years. We will note however, that within the church, the world elder is not only a reference to age, but also a position or office of the church. This cancer is about to metastasize across the U.S. and ALL of the dirt needs to be made public for the safety and spiritual well-being of the masses. Of course, he wasnt qualified for either so I guess that didnt matter. That said, the bishops, priests, and deacons are supposed to be models of humility and servanthood. I dont know, Ken. As a Christian, how could they do otherwise? These head pastors will gladly pay SM large fees in exchange for helping them become secret multi-millionaires. Good analogy, since Vietnamese restaurants tend to be small and committed to authenticity, without extorting the customer. Your actions are tell tale in what you believe regard God and Jesus his son. I never thought I would say such a thing about a church plant but, these young reformers are more about planting reformed theology, rather than Gospel churches. Ive seen the lightning flashing, (GOO GOO GA JOOB!)). Our former pastor was not only being paid far more than the community and congregational average, we were always showering them with paid vacations, new clothing for the kids and cash gifts. He was also a member of a team at the Harvest Bible Chapel. How does he know that? Craig French: Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. That clearly does not describe James MacDonald and HBC elders who are coming forth one at a time to confess their roles in the great deception in Chicago. He and James wanted newer, better buildings now, not when the flock could afford them. gentle Harvest members face losing their church homes over this man, yet he is planning on exporting this secret personal enrichment scheme, that is not at arms length, throughout the U.S. In 2012, after several decades of developing the worship culture at Harvest, the Vertical Church Band was born. Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain as well (and save yourself the time writing me about how my faith must not have been that deep if indeed Im struggling with God and Jesus). Weve drifted so far from the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth, Im not sure the institutional church can find its way back. On April 8, 2012, their desire became reality as the North Shore Campus launched its first service at the Winnetka Community House. (which for me is the whole idea. Dallas, choose the path of humility! It didnt reveal anything new. ), Law Prof: If we just got back to that model, the one the early church leaders generally followed . Therefore, an elder is a presbyter, is a bishop, is an overseer, is a pastor, is a shepherd. Known for its racial and economic diversity, the congregation moved into a converted warehouse in Rolling Meadows, Illinois, in 1995. Each church is completely autonomous, and thus, as it was written, appoint elders in every church, Truly, we need to follow the design God laid out for the church, for in so doing, we will benefit. Certainly! Plus there are several tombs of El Cid, the lost hero who saved Spain from the Muslim rulers in different cathedrals. Greg Laurie, pastor and founder of the 15,000-member Harvest, announced the move in June. Harvest Bible Chapel on the Lord's Way in Naples was once one of eight campuses of the 40,000-member, Illinois-based Harvest Bible Chapel. Ill have to ruminate on that a while. now if only you could do it without whining. Dee kindly explained my comment had been flagged because of some word in it and I wasnt blocked. ], anyway, its helpful to verbalize & hopefully dialogue). Sadly, many have not served well. If I find solace anywhere, its in the quiet moments of solitude and silence wherein I sense anew that the mysteries of life are vast, and that my continued pursuit of that which is beautiful and simple and true is enough for now. all of this is deeply regrettable. Max: My understanding is that Driscoll also consulted with Gateway. (Dee). It is unwise, and unsafe to loyally declare, But I know and love so and so. Sadly, clever manipulators can deceive very well. wolves among the sheep, earning their money, Only a public attack and a loss of financial success would drive change at Harvest., Thank you, Fisher, for the encouragement. Amy Moore: execs like CFO Fred Adams and COO Scott Milholland going into church consulting are the most dangerous. of seeing the beauty of the kindness of strangers, the beauty of love and faithfulness, of integrity at personal cost demonstrated by human beings everywhere. TS00: I find it very comforting to know that Jesus entered into a world that was very similar to what we now face: Religion had become a caricature of what God desired, and Jesus gently called people to follow him, rather than fear men. Walking in the light means not having to cover anything up and not belly aching when God Himself is the one shouting truth and revealing things from His Mountaintop. I understand He loves us to infinity as my 6 year old likes to say, but it sure wouldve been nice if pastor had given parents of small children some kind of warning. As for J.D. But the manner in which these charlatans lead indicates they dont really know Him they just use Him. Thanks so much for passing on much needed information. Ideally, we wouldnt need Twitter and blogs to expose the truth about corrupt churches, ministries, and their leaders. The office of an elder is not to be taken lightly. We simply interpret the words through a different filter. You dont even have to be a tyrant to fall for that scheme of the devil. Truth the WHOLE truth is the only antidote. Howard Hughes. Are you kidding me right now? Even with the woman who lies in your embrace guard the words of your lips. There have been many people demanding our statements be made public, and now that they are, are rejoicing in that, all while commenting from anonymous online handles. . Since I hate group think, we did not go. This comes after several calls from other people including members and deacons of Harvest Bible Chapel, for them to . God bless you. Moreover, that guy had the temerity to call out Peter at one point, at least by his own account. When I left the church I had served very visibly in for over a decade, ONE person made the effort to seek me out to wish me farewell. IMO, most people attend church to replace the lost family and community modern society has sacrificed. The worlds fierce winds are blowing, Harvest Bible Chapel looks forward to the future as we continue training up ministry leaders, pastors and church plants that seek to fulfill the Great Commission in Matthew 8:28. As you might imagine, there have been thousands of additional actors . Crazy, huh? The Story of Alleged Abuse at Sankey Orphanage in the Philippines and Its Relationship to Christ Community Chapel, Tom Randall, and Joe Coffey, Former Harvest Bible Chapel Members Want $72,000 In Donations Refunded, After Pastor James MacDonaldFired, https://swbts.edu/news/releases/game-banquet-uses-hunting-venue-spread-gospel/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwSTe9uit48, http://churchbuildingministry.org/who-we-are/, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+chosen+producers+james+macdonald&t=ffsb&ia=web, http://www.wsop.com/players/profile/?playerid=72494, http://www.globalpokerindex.com/poker-players/frederick-adams-169223/, https://classroom.synonym.com/the-role-of-the-clergy-in-the-greek-orthodox-church-12087637.html, https://www.archbalt.org/clergy-personnel-division/bishops-priests-deacons/. Its like dj vu all over again. -Yogi Berra. Those of us who have come out of destructive groups like these can assure the survivors that there are other people out there who will love you back into soul health, there are other schools for your children who will treat them right, and some day you will look back on this time and thank God that He pulled you through it. Well, I assume that you are the Dallas Jenkins referred to in the OP, but I have no way of confirming that. Also, we must note who it is that the elders have authority over. For those who regularly read this blog, question with critical thinking, demand proof for claims made, and hold those posting and commenting to the same standards being written about. This is accomplished mainly through having only a few puppet elders who are as dirty as the head pastor, hence, the 3 out of state elders Driscoll chose. Or are we to believe he just held back on refuting all this defamation out of a righteous desire to turn the other cheek? Clement may be writing as if those offices are an established fact, but for all we know, they could have been set up a few years previously as an organizational attempt and they were used to it. TS00: Never, and I mean never, have I heard someone say, I would leave, but I just cant survive without the gifted teaching. Are many claims on this blog but very little proof from original sources, alleged... Even remotely imagine EVER being harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins with a private school for students in preschool grade... Into church consulting are the dallas Jenkins ( born July 25, 1975 ) is a presbyter, is overseer! Family and community modern society has sacrificed took a gamble and lost name. Grow in the same category as Jesus himself, nor should I French thanks. Question: when was this letter written and sent degree or another some of the human.! The mark in your embrace guard the words through harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins different filter is no at. 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