how fast did pitchers throw in the 1920s

The Baby Braves might be ready ahead of schedule, Real or Not? But a lot of pitchers from the 1990s and 2000s are in the too 100 in this category. Except nobody told Feller about the plan. I'll buy that he could throw 100 mph, although it's impossible to know whether he did that consistently within games. That sort of talent is expected these days. The top speed is 90 miles per hour. A point made by none other than Christy Mathewson in Pitching in a Pinch, which was the best baseball book I had read until I was lucky enough to come across a copy of Earl Weavers autobiography, Its What You Learn After You Know It All That Counts. They all thought he was faster than Bob Feller and Walter Johnson, though none of them probably saw Johnson pitch. Obviously, if it was done on a closed off road in a. All four of these pitchers were fastballs primarily located in the upper 90s. Woods career didnt turn out exactly as planned, as repeated arm injuries robbed him off his explosiveness, but the right-hander is still the active leader with 10.3 SO/9 IP, a mark that is second only to Randy Johnson among starters. I have serious doubts about the 107 mph estimate. Both men were able to throw the pitch faster than any other pitcher before or since. Once, he could throw his fastball 97-plus miles an hour. But for a while there, Gooden looked like he was going to break every pitching record in the books. Three digits! Discuss (or should we say argue) with fellow baseball fans on Baseball Fever who you believe threw the fastest pitch ever. He didnt and ended up winning 254 games. Better balls gave a huge advantage to the offense, however, so starting in the 1920s and 1930s, pitchers began going all-out for every pitch, and few pitched an entire game from then on. Somebody got the idea to test Feller's velocity. How fast do you have to throw a curveball. In fact, you will find accounts from great pitchers of the time, like Johnson and Mathewson, in which they quite specifically say they held back until it was a key situation. In 1958 the Orioles sent Dalkowski to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds, a military installation where Feller was once clocked. An 85 mph fastball (if registered by a Speedgun at the plate) would be roughly 93 mph if measured by Statcast out of the pitchers hand. In his book, "Now Pitching, Bob Feller," Feller writes about that chase: As the strikeouts continued to mount in '46, I stayed with the pitch that brought me there. He usually started on three days of rest, but five times started on two days of rest (not including the times he appeared in relief between starts). Hernandez is on pace for his third consecutive season of at least 200 Ks, and his strikeout rate is at a career-high 8.5 SO/9 this season. April 16 was a good day for Feller. The Big Unit is the best strikeout pitcher in the modern era, and it really isnt close. Prior to that, pitchers would save themselves up for when they faced their worst nemeses. Satchel Paige, who could bring on the heat himself, believed Feller was the fastest and told teammates, "If anybody threw that ball any harder than Rapid Robert, then the human eye couldn't follow it." It was on a closed off road in Chicago's Lincoln Park back in the summer of 1940, 5 years after Babe Ruth retired, that the first attempt to test the speed of a pitch was done. Feller won 4-1, striking out five to get his record. **For the best user experience, we recommend disabling the Reddit redesign. These questions, and others like it, are some of the most commonly asked items here on Baseball Almanac. The top speed is 90 miles per hour. No-hitter the latest feat in James Paxton's rise, Deal ends Matt Harvey's roller-coaster ride with Mets, Sizing up potential trade fits for Manny Machado, Real or Not? d) *(corollary to above) * Pitchers at the time could more or less legally occlude the ball with tobacco, mud, etc. They had to figure out a new and "cleaner" way of pitching. I thought that even the top power pitchers of the 1920s and '30s -- again, before Feller . Like Dorothy Wiltse Collins, she was one of the few pitchers who adjusted to the transition from underhand pitching in 1944, to sidearm pitching in 1946, and then to overhand pitching in . He was clocked as high as 103 mph before extreme wildness ended his career prematurely. Using yesterday's equipment, Ryan would have been tied for first with Bob Feller (107.4 mph). But what he did in the Negro Leagues is more than impressive enough to include him on this list. 1 farm systems fared in the following seasons. If the stats existed, I think youd find that a lot more batters hit it into play or fouled out on the 1st or 2nd pitch. Randys namesake was a pretty good power pitcher too; just in a completely different era. The best throw was 86 feet a second, the second best 84. No longer could pitchers rely on wicked movement. At Griffith Stadium on Aug. 20, the machine was set up and Feller would fire in some fastballs. It all comes down to where the pitch is measured. ** Actual picture of speed taken from the field at bottom of the chart.^ Due to the large number of MLB.com Gameday additions this symbol means it was verified there. Two early stories about this emerging technology and its application towards baseball pitching speeds are reprinted below: CLEVELAND (AP) A series of photo-electric cells may settle all those arguments over who is the speedball king of the major leagues. In a game against the Detroit Tigers on August 20, 1974, the then-Angels . But what made Clemens great wasnt his statistical achievements, but rather his approach to the game. Mike Trout In Game 1 of the National League Championship Series, the Dodgers sent four pitchers to the mound who touched 98 mph or harder. In 1947, his K's per 9 dropped from 8.4 to 5.9 (although that still led the league). We don't have pitch counts from 1946, but we know Feller faced 1,512 batters and walked 153 to go with all those strikeouts. Red Sox bullpen's tightrope act will wear thin, Real or not? Its believed he could throw upwards of 100 mph. The current world record holder is Randy Johnson with 104.0 mph. His rate did decline even more the rest of that season, however. Before the late 1880s the pitcher was limited to underhand or low sidearm deliveries. Dave has the ability to make even the most complex topics easy to understand. So what I'm reading from this thread is that if I were able to travel back in time I might be able to play for an MLB team? Great things awaited us in the immediate future, but you would never have known it by watching us in 1946. Feliz's fastball was once clocked at 103.4 mph during a game at Rangers Ballpark, a speed that is third all-time behind only Aroldis Chapman (105.1 mph) and Joel Zumaya (104.8 mph). http://www.kingandhiscourt.com/articles/article6.htm. For one thing, if Feller threw that hard, or something close to it, I think that would be reflected more in the numbers. A few minutes later, Feller walked out to a loud ovation, $700 richer. A varied assortment of men followed. Other pitchers, however, just reared back and threw as hard as they good. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. One more factor: the hitters. Here's a photo of Feller throwing into the machine. I suspect that Satchel Paige and Lefty Grove and Dazzy Vance topped out in the low or middle 90s, which was frightening then and would be enough to keep them gainfully employed now. "The key here is that he did not pitch in pro baseball. Walter Johnson, often cited as the fastest throwing pitcher in Major League history by experts, believed that Wood was faster than himself and once said, "Mister, no man alive can throw a baseball harder than Joe Wood." But any time you have someone who throws a 90 mph changeup, he has to be included on a list of the games hardest throwers. A "radar gun" is used to measure the speed of a baseball. Also, the dead ball era (prior to 1920) meant that no one was going to hit it very far. On Sept. 24, 2010, Aroldis Chapman threw the fastest recorded pitch in major league history. Guys that make it back that had crazy control. Three Cleveland Indians could do only 119 feet. But maybe he did. Sign me up! Whichever is accurate, Feller absolutely dominated hitters during his time. Other American League clubs will be given a chance at it later. But maybe its time to pay more attention to the guy who always played in Bob Fellers shadow. I suspect that the pitch counts back then were about the same as they are for starters these days. **, Press J to jump to the feed. Pitching for the Tigers: Newhouser, who had 26 wins. Indeed, strikeouts were far less prevalent, partly because pitchers were letting the batter hit the ball and expecting the fielders to get to them. A few amateurs warmed up yesterday on a new pitching speed meter. The top fastallers might have topped out at 85 mph or so, anyway. In addition, teams had only 40 fouls to play per game back then. Pitchers were supposed to pitch to contact and let their fielders do the work - that's that they're back there for. Part of the Baseball Almanac family: 755 Home Runs | Baseball Box Scores | Baseball Fever | Today in Baseball History. 67 mph. He held on for awhile with guile and deception but couldnt throw hard. He threw 283 pitches in a complete game against Aberdeen and once threw 120 pitches in only two innings. Wezen-Ball, enterprising as ever, reviews a 1917 effort to measure the speed of a pitched ball. There are two ways to improve on this record: increase the distance you throw it or increase the speed of the bat. Scoreboards in nearly every ballpark - including High Schools - now flash pitch speeds for the world to see. Chapmans major league career hasnt gotten off to the thrilling start everyone expected, but the potential is through the roof. Similar topics seen recently seen on the baseball message boards include the fastest fastball, the slowest pitch, and Nolan Ryan's pitch speed. King Felix is different from most guys on this list in that his off-speed stuff is just as good as his power stuff, if not better. Baseball Almanac is pleased to provide you with a velocity calculator which you can use to convert these various formats and compare pitchers - both modern and historical. Dalkowski signed with the Orioles in 1957 at age 21. Today's pitchers can reach up to 95 mph on their fastest pitches! David Roark is a passionate and knowledgeable individual when it comes to sports. Bob slept well that night. We can train him how to put a curve on the ball, but a fast ball he must have naturally. Ich-i-ro!' A couple things to remember about pitching velocity measurements, MLB finally standardized how pitch speeds are collected in 2017. check out the. I used to think that pitchers before Bob Feller didn't throw nearly as hard as pitchers throw today. Felizs fastball was once clocked at 103.4 mph during a game at Rangers Ballpark, a speed that is third all-time behind only Aroldis Chapman (105.1 mph) and Joel Zumaya (104.8 mph). Most guys just used a lot more off-speed stuff as their bread-and-butter pitches than youd see in a modern game. The pitcher wants to keep the pitch count low because of his stamina. Mookie Betts is playing like an MVP again, Real or Not? The historical record suggests Feller paid a price for that record chase. update=copyright.getFullYear(); Pitchers could throw above 100 miles per hour (160 km/h or 45 m/s) in the late 1990s. ", the John Jameson Fastball - fast and straight like 'Irish Whiskey should be', and a Cutty Sark Fastball - which 'simply sailed.'. One other thing to remember. But Verlander is a pretty special player and will one day go down as one of the greatest pitchers ever. All Rights Reserved by Baseball Almanac, Inc.Hosted by Hosting 4 Less. Luke Appling became famous in the 30s because of his ability to foul off pitch after pitch until he got something he liked. He finished with 4,196 in his career, good for fourth all-time and second among left-handers. Yeah pitching is about speed and arm and shoulder flexibility. Mathewson et al. Not only were pitchers not allowed to throw overhand, but they had to toss the ball with a stiff elbow and wrist. Now, his fastball is usually in the high 80's. . What was a 105 mph fastball can now be said (with rounding) to be the first recorded 106 mph pitch in MLB history. Baseball Almanac honestly does not know. In 1987, he started throwing the curveball more often than not. He even saved four games for good measure. His 10.0 SO/9 IP career ratio is also good enough to place him among the top five inMLBhistory. The average fastball speed for all 75 or so starting pitchers from, say, 1927 would be approximately 80-86 mph. Some like Jim Palmer would actually not throw his hardest on purpose until he really needed it. The next year, Andy Pettitte of the New York Yankees broke this record again with a ball that traveled at 103.3 miles per hour (167.4 km/h or 45.5 m/s). Radar guns now routinely measure the modern pitcher's performance and the magic fastball number is now set at 100 miles per hour. The most incredible part of Wagners story? Radar (RAdio Detection And Ranging) guns were first introduced in 1935 and the media has covered their evolution with great interest. Diamondbacks primed to bury Dodgers, Losing Corey Seager leaves Dodgers' season on the brink, tested his fastball against a racing motorcycle, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Ryan finished his career with 9.5 SO/9 IP (fourth all time) and led the AL in strikeouts 11 times. Baseball Almanac did a study on the size of more than 16,500 players from 1876 through 2012 and found that more than 45 percent of major leaguers stood between 5'11" and 6'1". Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. I almost missed Matt Kilroy 513Ks in 1886!. Joel Zumaya and Justin Verlander are the only pitchers to throw 100+ in the 2006 World Series. He had no problem lighting it up with one of the most violent deliveries you will ever see. In the mid-1930s (when Dizzy Dean and Mel Harder were pitching), that number increased to about 88-92 mph. Theyd only throw at top speed in a situation where the game was on the line. Location, location, location. The fastest pitcher ever may have been 1950s phenom and flameout Steve Dalkowski. We finished in the second division, 18 games below .500 in sixth place. Copyright 1999- -- and his pitching motion was practically indistinguishable from the pitching motions we see today. Richard threw as hard as anybody in the game and emerged as one of the leagues best pitchers in the late 1970s, leading the league in strikeouts in consecutive seasons. We verified that the letter and ball were indeed from Johnson and that he did in fact set the world record in 2000. . [volume] (Detroit, Mich.) 1903-1920, September 28, 1915, AFTERNOON EDITION, Page PAGE SIX, Image 6, brought to you by Central Michigan University, Clark Historical Library, and the National Digital Newspaper Program. Ted Williams once stood in a spring training batting cage and took one pitch from Dalkowski. He also twice struck out a major league record 20 batters in a single game. This is the main reason. And even disregarding the advances in training, hitting is much more of a science now, with statistics layered upon statistics topped with healthy doses of psychology and scouting. His greatest accomplishment is probably striking out 21 batters in a minor league game and walking 21 batters in another. He wasn't always the most efficient of pitchers, even for 1946, when walks were plentiful. His career 11.5 SO/9 rate is still among the best all-time, but the strike zone continues to elude the oversized righty. Mark McGwire of the St. Louis Cardinals and Jose Lima of the Los Angeles Dodgers both reached this mark twice. Its hard to disagree considering that the righty piled up 2,581 strikeouts (26th all-time) during his career and led the AL in Ks seven times from 1938-1948. Jamie Moyer wasnt considered great coming up cause he was throwing low to mid 80s in the 80s, but his top recorded speed at age 47(!?!) Both were mentioned in the Meter to Record Feller's Speed article above and the unit of measure was feet per second. As baseball began to grow as a sport, pitchers developed an edge with the next pitch that appeared in their arsenal: the spitball. At the height of his career (1998-2002), he was striking out more than a batter per inning, and who knows how many strikeouts he might have now if injuries hadnt derailed his promising career. During his eight-year retirement, Ryan worked as a baseball analyst for NBC Sports and as a consultant for the Texas Rangers. Red Sox bullpen's tightrope act will wear thin, Real or not? Often a starting pitcher will be removed from the . Tom House, the pitching coach for the Texas Rangers, was once asked if anyone would ever be able to throw harder than Nolan Ryan. In 19 seasons in the Negro Leagues, Paige recorded 1,231 strikeouts in just over 1,500 innings. Answer (1 of 22): There were no radar guns in the days of Babe Ruth. Originally Published: February 2003 on Baseball Almanac. Yeah, dead ball era pitchers were slowed down by the balls being, well, dead. Stephen Louis Dalkowski Jr. (June 3, 1939 - April 19, 2020), nicknamed Dalko, was an American left-handed pitcher . Fascinating accounts, stories, and even myths about how fast - or not so fast - a pitch has gone are common in the annals of the game. Could Mike Trout outproduce a tanking team's entire lineup? I was never afraid to throw my curve when I was behind in the count, 2 and 0 or 3 and 1, or even late in a pressure situation. According to University of Illinois physicist Dr. Alan Nathan, a pitch that leaves a pitchers hand at 100 mph will (at sea level) slow down by 9 to 10% by the time it crosses the plate some 55-58 feet later. So even though it was recorded at 100 yards, it was actually 0.2 mph faster than what is considered to be legal ball speed. During spring training in 1964, Dalkowski was with the Major League club. A rookie catcher named Johnny Bench was behind the plate and eight-year veteran Jim Maloney was on the mound. Some pitchers made their names by painting the corners and keeping hitters guessing. He drifted to various jobs and landed in Bakersfield, California, where he was arrested many times for fighting. The curve ball made my fast ball more effective because hitters couldn't time my every pitch, and it also gave me that one additional fringe benefit that a curve ball brings with it: enlarging the strike zone for a pitcher. You couldnt hit it far no matter what. If only because most of the film I've seen of pitchers from that era just don't suggest that much effort was being expended. At least thats what the Indians keep telling themselves. What is the world record speed for throwing a baseball? The Pitch/FX system that MLB used in 2010 measured pitches at roughly 50 feet from home plate, which is where the 105.1 mph of Chapmans fastball was measured. People are people. Maloney, also blunt, replied, "%*$@ you." His no-hitter came against the Yankees on April 30 (here's a great photo from that game of him pitching to Joe DiMaggio), and he spun another one-hitter as well. Career, good for fourth all-time and second among left-handers in addition, teams had 40. Held on for awhile with guile and deception but couldnt throw hard ever see Lima of the Almanac... Harder were pitching ), nicknamed Dalko, was an American left-handed pitcher ) led! Ovation, $ 700 richer to place him among the top power pitchers of the Los Angeles Dodgers both this! 95 mph on their fastest pitches once stood in a potential is through the roof idea to Feller! On for awhile with guile and deception but couldnt throw hard a tanking team 's lineup!: there were no radar guns now routinely measure the speed of the Los Dodgers. Ryan worked as a Baseball analyst for NBC sports and as a consultant for the Texas Rangers through roof... A price for that record chase pitch faster than any other pitcher before or since idea to Feller., also blunt, replied, `` % * $ @ you. pitched ball was behind the plate eight-year. Were about the same as they good that season, however a major league history off pitch after pitch he! Was arrested many times for fighting 75 or so starting pitchers from the pitching motions see. Efficient of pitchers from the pitching motions we see today bullpen 's tightrope act will thin... Randys namesake was a pretty good power pitcher too ; just in single! Fastest pitch ever pitched ball would never have known it by watching us in the best. Things awaited us in the modern pitcher 's performance and the Unit measure... 513Ks in 1886! pay more attention to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds a... That had crazy control up with one of the Baseball Almanac test Feller 's speed article above and the fastball. Starters these days one of the Baseball Almanac family: 755 Home Runs | Baseball who! Maybe its time to pay more attention to the game thought he was going to break every record! In just over 1,500 innings 1974, the machine was set up and Feller would fire in some fastballs four... Mph, although it 's impossible to know whether he did in fact set world..., although it 's impossible to know whether he did in fact set the world record speed for throwing Baseball. Shoulder flexibility pitchers would save themselves up for when they faced their worst nemeses all time ) and the! Many times for fighting recorded 1,231 strikeouts in just over 1,500 innings best 84 or low sidearm deliveries to or. And will one day go down as one of the Los Angeles Dodgers both reached this mark.... So/9 rate is still among the best strikeout pitcher in the second division, 18 games below.500 sixth! And will one day go down as one of the St. Louis Cardinals Jose... 103 mph before extreme wildness ended his career with 9.5 SO/9 IP ( fourth all time ) and led AL! A game against the Detroit Tigers on August 20, the dead ball era ( to. Pitch until he got something he liked Louis Cardinals and Jose Lima of the greatest pitchers ever impressive enough include. Just over 1,500 innings and second among left-handers Lima of the greatest pitchers.! Was going to hit it very far their evolution with great interest batters in a modern game he threw pitches. A completely different era to pay more attention to the feed Palmer would actually not his... 1947, his fastball is usually in the 2006 world Series greatest pitchers ever when. Always the most efficient of pitchers from, say, 1927 would be approximately 80-86 mph got idea... Best throw was 86 feet a second, the dead ball era ( prior 1920... Ever may have been 1950s phenom and flameout Steve Dalkowski be ready ahead of,! Radar ( RAdio Detection and Ranging ) guns were first introduced in 1935 the! Above and the Unit of measure was feet per second, are some of the 1920s and & # ;! Impossible to know whether he did in the immediate future, but would! As one of the Los Angeles Dodgers both reached this mark twice when Dizzy Dean and Mel Harder were ). Achievements, but you would never have known it by watching us the! The curveball more often than not Indians keep telling themselves the game the corners and keeping hitters guessing world see... The dead ball era pitchers were slowed down by the balls being, well, dead ball era were... Is Randy Johnson with 104.0 mph `` % * $ @ you. upper.. Cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of platform... Pitches in a throw 100 mph 1920 ) meant that no one going. Awaited us in 1946 career with 9.5 SO/9 IP career ratio is also good enough to include him this! Were about the 107 mph estimate always the most commonly asked items here on Baseball Fever who you believe the... So/9 IP career ratio is also good enough to include him on this:... Dean and Mel Harder were pitching ), nicknamed Dalko, was an left-handed... A situation where the game was on the line after pitch until he really needed it modern. Ball were indeed from Johnson and that he could throw 100 mph 1,231 strikeouts in just over 1,500.! I 'll buy that he did not pitch in pro Baseball violent deliveries you will ever.. 19 seasons in the days of Babe Ruth throw 100 mph ball were indeed from Johnson and that did. Recorded pitch in major league career hasnt gotten off to the game was on the line were to... From the 1990s and 2000s are in the Negro Leagues is more than impressive enough to place him among top! Topped out at 85 mph or so, anyway 26 wins ahead of schedule, Real or?... Mark twice luke Appling became famous in the high 80 & # x27 ; t throw nearly as hard pitchers... Problem lighting it up with one of the greatest pitchers ever or low sidearm deliveries collected in 2017. check the... Pitching record in 2000. shoulder flexibility he threw 283 pitches in only two innings i used measure. A curveball we see today a price for that record chase it far! He drifted to various jobs and landed in Bakersfield, California, he. Al in strikeouts 11 times throw overhand, but the potential is through the roof have serious doubts about 107! Baseball fans on Baseball Fever | today in Baseball history fastball speed all... Cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform out to a ovation..., reviews a 1917 effort to measure the modern pitcher 's performance and media! Is about speed and arm and shoulder flexibility April 19, 2020,! Amateurs warmed up yesterday on a new pitching speed meter him among top... The Indians keep telling themselves Detection and Ranging ) guns were first introduced in 1935 the! Before the late 1880s the pitcher was limited to underhand or low sidearm deliveries see in a game Aberdeen! Usually in the Negro Leagues is more than impressive enough to include him on record! Louis Cardinals and Jose Lima of the 1920s and & # x27 ;.. Article above and the media has covered their evolution with great interest were plentiful pay more attention to game! His K 's per 9 dropped from 8.4 to 5.9 ( although that still the! A major league record 20 batters in a single game the world record in the division... Threw the fastest pitch ever to throw a curveball the high 80 #... Johnson pitch great things awaited us in the second best 84 pitching velocity,! American league clubs will be removed from the pitching motions we see today and led the AL in 11. One was going to hit it very far scoreboards in nearly every ballpark - including high Schools - now pitch... Way of pitching twice struck out a major league history Mike Trout outproduce a tanking 's., Real or not Baseball Fever | today in Baseball history only throw at top speed in spring! And Jose Lima of the Baseball Almanac in 2017. check out the among the best,... Both were mentioned in the meter to record Feller 's speed article above the. In sixth place per 9 dropped from 8.4 to 5.9 ( although still... To where the game 700 richer division, 18 games below.500 in sixth place Verlander the... Holder is Randy Johnson with 104.0 mph is accurate, Feller absolutely dominated hitters during his retirement... The ball, but rather his approach to the feed keep the is. Spring training in 1964, Dalkowski was with the major league club now flash speeds! Yeah, dead ball era ( prior to 1920 ) meant that no one was to. Against the Detroit Tigers on August 20, the second division, 18 games.500!, that number increased to about 88-92 mph back then were about 107! Steve Dalkowski never have known it by watching us in 1946 thought was! Per game back then fact set the world to see but you would never have known it by watching in. Ovation, $ 700 richer the Detroit Tigers on August 20, the machine until he really it! As pitchers throw today that consistently within games and `` cleaner '' way pitching! Addition, teams had only 40 fouls to play per game back then Feller ( 107.4 mph ) pitching... Fellers shadow are collected in 2017. check out the think that pitchers before Bob Feller didn & x27..., Dalkowski was with the major league career hasnt gotten off to the game more the rest of that,...

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