Quit smoking usuu lly feel apprehensive u t thu sight u043ef brown u043er black mucus, but. The dextrocardia has nothing to do with it. The tiny grape cluster-like air sacs at the tips of your breathing tubes can swell and fill up with fluid. Weve got a crash course on metabolism basics. since then. Cilia begin to regain function within weeks after quitting smoking, with continued improvement for at least several months. In order to control symptoms of this condition, various medication forms such as bronchodilators and Beta2-agonists can be used to relax the airways as per a 2021 study. Coughing up brown phlegm is also a common symptom of excessive smoking. Top answers from doctors based on your search: Created for people with ongoing healthcare needs but benefits everyone. It takes up to 9 months for your lungs to he No. Be happy and worry about something else. Improved lung function can lead to an increased capacity for exercise and physical work . You can help get rid of it faster by drinking lots of fluids and running a humidifier or vaporizer to help moisten and thin out your phlegm. Surprisingly, rarely did I cough up brown phlegm for those 42 years, but once I quit this habit, I started coughing up tar, which worried me much. You will need a chest X-ray so that the doctor can evaluate the extent of smoking damages in your lungs. Didn't find the answer you were looking for? I, too, have been coughing up gunk since I started vaping. Which Impractical Joker Has Lost The Most? Now that weve already discussed the natural process of cleaning out your lungs headed by the cilia, its only natural to want to figure out other ways of getting rid of the toxins collected in your lungs. We offer this Site AS IS and without any warranties. No it is not normal to cough up brown phlegm. Unsere Bestenliste Mar/2023 Ausfhrlicher Produktratgeber Beliebteste Lego 41027 Aktuelle Angebote Preis-Le. Need To Quit Smoking? Yeah this is your lungs naturally clearing the gunk from itself. This is probably the single best thing you could do for your health. In fact, its a sign that your lungs are healing and their cleaning processes are kicking back into action. The mucus can range from clear to cloudy, brown, yellow, or green. I'm going to give it a bit longer until I go see a Dr, as I have no insurance, and im going to give the weed a total break for a few months, and perhaps start to get some exercise. Pro Gaming and Tech Geeks - Orclage is a Blog dedicated for Tech Geeks. Could brown specks in your phlegm mean something else? Aspergillus is a fungus thats widely found in soil, plants, and rotting vegetation. i feel a constant mild headache and have been coughing up phlegm since taking a flu shot about 10 days ago. Surprising Ways Smoking Affects Your Looks. The color and texture can vary widely, from clear sticky strings to stretchy yellow messes to thick green clots. I don't get what you mean there is nothing in marijuana to make you do that? You may also develop a fever. is all this normal after quitting smoking? Youd have thought that quitting smoking would improve your lung health, and a cough isnt exactly a sign that your lungs are healthy. The reason that some people develop a cough after quitting smoking is all down to tiny hair-like Cilia that can be found on the surface of cells in your airways. After 3 days. I have noticed some brown in my sputum (more like flecks of brown, not rusty and not blood) over the past 8 weeks or so every once in awhile. You might cough, wheeze, and have trouble breathing. Causes behind painful breathing, fluid buildup. This is when the linings of your bronchial tubes, the air passageways in your lungs, get inflamed. Besides, persistent coughing is likely to result in a hernia, a constant irritation of the throat. I almost didn't quit because after 1 month of no tobacco I was dying. deadphishcheez4 said: Cannabis does have a definite tar content and the brownish dots in your mucus are tar pieces. Here are five warning signs to watch for. Yes, it is common to feel worse temporarily after quitting smoking. Mol Cancer Res. Read on to learn more about ABPA and how it can be treated. history of anxiety. A main symptom is mucus in a variety of shades, from white to brown. It can be a sign of old blood, chronic -- ongoing -- inflammation, or tar that loosens up after youve quit smoking. Your lungs are beginning to undo the damage that smoking had done to them. Cigarettes slow down the tiny cilia that sweep mucus from your lungs. For these, please consult a doctor (virtually or in person). Copyright 2023 Leaf Group Ltd., all rights reserved. Whats wrong with me?? He turned back quickly, coughing, laughing, his lifted arms waving to the air. However, there are a few symptoms that you should watch out for that may indicate something more serious than the recovery of the lungs: If youre suffering from any of these symptoms, please see a doctor as soon as possible. Educational text answers on HealthTap are not intended for individual diagnosis, treatment or prescription. No coughing or hacking up phlegm, I just tend to spit when I smoke. Had an X-Ray done just, get results in 7-10 days, hopefully come back clear, will update this when I get the results too. Smoking. Drinking warm beverages and even warm water is beneficial for your recovering lungs. Coughing up phlegm after quitting smoking. This happens if the airways that join your windpipe to the lower part of your lungs are too wide. Thank you, google said I was dying of so many causes due to the brown spots on my phlegm and I had suicide on my mind for days. Your doctor may recommend a range of antibiotics for you to take over a few weeks such as clindamycin. Coughing up brown phlegm once putting an end to your smoking habit is nothing to worry about and heres why. I can take a deep breath into my lungs for once. been sick and coughing up green mucus since then. Damage to lung cells builds up over time, and eventually can lead to a cancerous tumor. Happened when I quit smoking cold-turkey also, so I knew what to expect. Viral infections are the most common cause of acute bronchitis. I thought I was coughing up my insides. I can tell by the way I feel, breath, taste, and smell, the benefits of vape over smoke. Lets get started! A great chocolate-coloured pall lowered over heaven, but the wind was continually charging and routing these embattled vapours; so that as the cab crawled from street to street, Mr. Utterson beheld a marvellous number of degrees and hues of twilight; for here it would be dark like the back-end of evening; and there would be a glow of a rich . Never disregard the medical advice of your physician or health professional, or delay in seeking such advice, because of something you read on this Site. The mucus might be yellow, green, red, brown, or rust-colored. Consult a gastroenterologist. When youre constantly smoking, the tobacco smoke tends to freeze the movement of little strands of hair known as cilia. I smoke anywhere from 2-10 bong rips a day. In this unique and fascinating report from Missouri Medicine, world-renowned expert Dr. Raymond Moody examines what really happens when we almost die. Mucus. // Leaf Group Lifestyle, Food That Will Heal Your Lungs From Smoke Damage. My bet, you'll soon feel better, and good luck in not smoking!!!! The most common cause of black coloured phlegm is dust or dirt from the. Causes of Phlegm After Quitting Smoking 1 After quitting smoking, coughing up mucus is very common. Bronchiectasis. I hope so, I tend to get them in bursts, like after 4 months of nothing, i'll have a couple of days of coughing up clear stuff with brown spots/streaks in it. I assumed it was my lungs cleaning themselves after 15 years of smoking. Fruits like watermelon may be helpful, given that it contains 92% water. If you are experiencing serious medical symptoms, seek emergency treatment immediately. My question. Ive been smoking 35 years- you wanna see the brown butter that comes out of me! Ads Quit Smoking smokingcessation. Although it depends on the extent to which the cilia and the mucosal membrane in your lungs had been damaged, but expect no less than five to eight months before the coughing stops completely. I throw up brown phlegm two months after quitting smoking? Step 3 If prescribed, pick up a prescription to help with smoking cessation. Inflammation is a key component of smoking-related lung diseases, such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, or COPD. People with CF are born with a faulty gene that makes their mucus very thick and sticky. . Please note, we cannot prescribe controlled substances, diet pills, antipsychotics, or other abusable medications. & I use a bong a great majority of the time. If youre even slightly concerned that your brown phlegm may not be a part of your post-smoking experience, it may be time to look into other causes. Thanks mate, I agree, never again. I smoked 10-15 per day, for 3 years, the year is started was like 4-6, the last year before i quit was like 1-2 cigs a day. Quitting smoking is not an easy process at all. How Long Do You Cough Up Phlegm After Quitting Smoking? If you are ready to quit, and want help or support, talk with your doctor to learn more about counseling, support groups or medications that can help you stay tobacco-free. This enables the oxygen the lungs take in from the air to be more easily be moved to other parts of the body. Is it common to cough up brown . The Cilia sway side-to-side in unison, acting almost like a brush to sweep pollutants that have been trapped in the mucus out of your lungs. stopping your smoking is the single best thing that you can do. A Great job quitting smoking - 2 months is a long time and should get easier every day to stay that way! Don't worry bro. Coughing up black phlegm after quitting smoking, Coughing up brown mucus after quitting smoking. Pot smoking doubles a person's risk of developing a regular hacking cough. Itll be stickier and thicker, and therell be more of it. Only because it's been a long time since you've had a real cigarette and this started back up again out of nowhere after not having it for a while. If your cough lasts more than a month or if you see blood, see your doctor. ABPA causes the lungs to become inflamed. Quit smoking a month ago. Treatments for COPD include medications, pulmonary rehab, supplemental oxygen, and surgery to open up blocked pathways. This should give you all the more reason to motivate yourself and take a step further in easing this whole uncomfortable process by following the guidelines given above. It's completely fine to notice brown specks in your phlegm within a few weeks of quitting smoking since it involves a natural clean-up process initiated in your body to detoxify. If the cough persists for longer and is accom Dr. Heidi Fowler and another doctor agree. 2023 The Heart & Brain. Why Do I Feel Worse After I Quit Smoking? If you find your cough to be extremely disruptive and intense, you can also resort to using a humidifier or vaporizer to help soften the thickness of your phlegm. These are different names for the slimy, slippery stuff that flows out when you cough, sneeze, or sniffle. I have been smoking at least five cigarettes in a day as early as 14 years until I left this heavy smoking habit at the age of 56. If you get nervous go the the doctor and let him have a look. Antibiotics and flu vaccines can help prevent infections. What is best treatment for cough syncope besides quitting smoking? Cilia is responsible for transporting mucus out of your lungs. Can Quitting Smoking Raise Your Blood Pressure? The temporary after-effects of it might even tempt you back into smoking. This is not directly related to Marijuana, but to the smoke. Smoke slows down the tiny cilia that sweep mucus from your lungs. Weed turns your glass pipes and bongs a brownish color in a very short amount of time. Improved lung function can lead to an increased capacity for exercise and physical work . Here are some reasons why you might get it. dead2you 9 yr. ago Yeah. You might get a fever. Shortness of breath- Struggling to breathe, especially after little or no exertion, is a worrying sign. Cilia are damaged by tobacco smoke, rendering them unable to effectively clear particles and move mucus through the airways. Updated March 23, 2020. Drink water and get a good rest. Thats why you develop the cough after youve finished smoking. NSAIDs (e.g. Since bronchiectasis is a long-term condition, you may need to stay on inhalers and other drugs to lower your swelling. Connect with a U.S. board-certified doctor by text or video anytime, anywhere. It is usually more prevalent in smokers who smoke unfiltered cigarettes or tobacco in a pipe. When breathing out, cilia, together with mucus, moves the foreign material out to the upper respiratory system, such as the wipe pipe, where you can easily cough it up from your breathing system. Given that cigarettes are designed for the fast trigger of the happy chemical through the delivery of nicotine into your brain, quitting seems already hard enough. Whilst you were smoking, your cilia had been effectively disabled and were unable to shift mucus out of your lungs. Health Effects of Smoking. You can also expect wheezing and fever as other symptoms. Some people cough up thick dark brown chunks after quitting smoking. A simple walk in the park can help the air sacs in your lungs to stay open and breathe in healthier air. Coughing up brown mucus or brown phlegm from chest or throat can mean an infection or simply lung pollution. Visit it to see if it can help you. Phlegm. Common cause. As your lungs heal the become more efficient at clearing themselves, the little cilia in the respiratory track are no longer suppressed by the tar and resume their jobs of moving crap back up to be coughed out. You definitely can help yourself ease into this phlegm situation by primarily making sure that you remain hydrated always. Ok first off sorry probably been beat to death, but I'm noticing something a little different. However, if you notice a deterioration in your condition, or for example find yourself coughing up blood, please seek medical attention as soon as possible. For potential or actual medical emergencies, immediately call 911 or your local emergency service. All Rights Reserved. but it won't hurt to get a doctor to check you out. As Bob Dylan wrote, "You don't need a weather vane to know which way the wind blow." Coughing up brown phlegm (Quitting smoking) Do i have copd?! After like 2-3 weeks of vaping I starting hacking up phlegm with brown stuff in it. Cigarettes slow down the tiny cilia that sweep mucus from your lungs. Take Omeprazole empty stomach in morning and an antacid gel at bedtime. This includes the cilia, which gradually begin to resume their function of cleaning the trapped pollutants and toxins out of your lungs. Halo's Malibu, Mentol Ice & Kringles Curse, and Dark City Vapor's Triple V. How do we know? Understanding these symptoms can make it easier to cope with quitter's flu, but using OTC medications and nicotine replacement therapy products can . Top answers from doctors based on your search: Created for people with ongoing healthcare needs but benefits everyone. One said mucus reaches the throat, it can be coughed out as phlegm or swallowed. Youre probably wondering if its normal to develop a phlegmy cough after you quit smoking, and youre definitely wondering how long its going to go on for if youre suffering from one. Coughing up blood- This could be a sign of an infection, or could be an early warning sign of lung cancer. BTW avoid synthetic weed like the plague. The difference between the tar from marijuana and the tar from tobacco from what I understand is that our lungs are able to clean out the cannabis tar, but since ingredients in tobacco paralyze the cilia in our lungs, we can't . You can drink fluids like water, fresh fruit juices, and even tea. Soon after recovering I noticed that I was coughing up brown specks in my phlegm. Sometimes the color can be a tip-off of the type of bacteria that caused the illness. Its been 2 & half months after quitting smoking and still occasionally coughing brown phelgm. There is a possibility you have bleeding gastric ulcer or esophageal varices. This is a painful pocket of pus wrapped in inflamed tissue. almost 25. wheezing. In the mornings there are much more dark pieces in clear phlegm, and when it randomly happens throughout the day, it is just small specks or chunks encased in clear phlegm. black specks mucus after quitting smoking, brown flecks in phlegm after quitting smoking, brown specks in phlegm after quitting smoking reddit, brown specks in phlegm after quitting smoking weed reddit, brown spots in phlegm after quitting smoking, grey specks in phlegm after quitting smoking. Now if you quit smoking and still hang around your smoking buddies while theyre having a drag, your efforts will be futile since second-hand smoke is just as bad. Here we mainly focus on Digital Technology. i'm quitting smoking after 8 years. Video chat with a U.S. board-certified doctor 24/7 in less than one minute for common issues such as: colds and coughs, stomach symptoms, bladder infections, rashes, and more. The Content on this Site is presented in a summary fashion, and is intended to be used for educational and entertainment purposes only. Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease happens when your lungs get so swollen over time that air cant flow freely. (btw I quit smoking 6 months ago with a few unfortunate relapses) Edit: Chest X-Ray came back clear, had one 10 months back too and they said when comparing the two there has been no changes, Dr said it should clear up on it's own, no need or further tests! It's completely fine to notice brown specks in your phlegm within a few weeks of quitting smoking since it involves a natural clean-up process initiated in your body to detoxify. Mucus can build up and make you more likely get lung infections. Cilia are the tiny- hair-like structures found in the lungs, and their sore purpose is to keep the lungs clean. Dont confuse the google search with your doctors 7 year medical degree Rest assured this is a common prob with such as we. Been there before and it takes a while to get it all out. Youll need antibiotics to treat bacterial pneumonia. not coughing or phlegm. I am sure Vaping has spared me severe future respiratory bouts. It all depends on how long you smoked and if you already have chronic bronchitis ( which is a form of copd) . By using our website, you consent to our use of cookies. You described the same thing I am seeing. Here are some reasons why you might get it. A more serious cause of brown phlegm is blood that arises from the bronchi, voice box, windpipe or lungs. Smoking causes inflammation of the airway walls, leading to thickening of these walls and increased mucus production. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Whilst your cough will still take some time to clear up, there are a couple of things you can do to help ease your symptoms and speed the process along. It also smells like old cigs a bit. I'm glad your body is healing itself and you're doing well. HealthTap uses cookies to enhance your site experience and for analytics and advertising purposes. MedHelp is not a medical or healthcare provider and your use of this Site does not create a doctor / patient relationship. cough that tastes bad. 2014;12(1):3-13. doi:10.1158/1541-7786.mcr-13-0539, Baglietto L, Ponzi E, Haycock P, et al. At first I thought I was allergic to the vape and maybe I was better off smoking, however some very smart medical people told me to hack my way through it. The risk of lung cancer falls within 5 years of quitting. If you dont recover you may have to resort to antibiotics. The following steps will help the throat irritation that comes with your cough and reduce phlegm. Cilia are there to protect your lungs from pollutants- your bronchial tubes are lined with a thin coating of mucus and cilia. In this case, the black speck is tar. orclage.official@gmail.com, Top Best Health Fitness Apps For Android (Mobile phone,. Your chest might feel tight or tender. How long does nicotine withdrawal last? Stopping smoking gives lung cells a chance to repair already-sustained genetic damage -- and additional damage from ongoing exposure to tobacco smoke is avoided. The nih has a wonderful website with many resources for smokers who want to stop. doc says reflux, Coughing up grey mucus after quitting smoking, Coughing up green mucus after quitting smoking, Coughing up black phlegm after quitting smoking. Brown phlegm is less common. The sooner you quit, the better the chance for reversing the harmful effects of tobacco smoke on the lungs. You could also use throat soothing lozenges. Additionally, when the airways return to a normal thickness, lung function improves as well. After like 2-3 weeks of. I coughed/am coughing up the brownish colored chunks too. Causes for Coughing up Brown phlegm. Once it settled down, I can tell you I have never looked back. Edit: Chest X-Ray came back clear, had one 10 months back too and they said when comparing the two there has been no changes, Dr said it should clear up on it's own, no need or further tests! If you find your throat is particularly sore and irritated, you could try using standard remedies like cough syrup or a tablespoon of honey a few times a day. Within a week of quitting smoking, your lungs start clearing themselves. People who smoke a lot usually cough up phlegm that is brown and looks disgusting. Haven t smoked a analog cigarette. A 24-year-old male asked: Its been 2 months after quitting smoking and still occasionally coughing brown phelgm.is this a dangerous sign or shud i wait till it stop. You may also receive a prescription for pain relievers to treat your fever and bodily discomfort. The reason that some people develop a cough after quitting smoking is all down to tiny hair-like Cilia that can be found on the surface of cells in your airways. Within a week of quitting smoking, your lungs start clearing themselves. Harvard University: All About That Mucus: How It Keeps Us Healthy., The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center: What Does the Color of Phlegm Mean?, Western Australia Department of Health: Facts About Giving Up Smoking., Breathe: The Lung Association (Canada): Recognize the Early Warning Signs of a Flare-up., American Lung Association: Treating COPD, The Basics of Pulmonary Rehabilitation., Harvard Medical School: Acute Bronchitis., National Health Service (UK): Pneumonia., John Muir Health: Chronic Lung Disease., Cystic Fibrosis Foundation: About Cystic Fibrosis., Mount Nittany Health: Allergic Bronchopulmonary Aspergillosis., Merck Manuals: Abscess in the Lungs., BMJ Case Reports: Unusual case of a lung abscess.. Is it normal, or usual for a heavy marijuana smoker (numerous times daily for 6+ years), to be coughing up clear phlegm with dark gray/brown globular matter encased in it, mainly in the mornings and randomly in small amounts throughout the day? If you quit smoking before you have moderate to severe COPD which is the term encompassing chronic bronchitis and emphysema you will see improvement i You said it and you're right. Cilia are damaged by tobacco smoke, rendering them unable to effectively clear particles and move mucus through the airways. Besides, the mucosal membrane starts regenerating while the old mucosal membrane comes out as the brown stuff. Taking a couple of teaspoons of honey at bedtime also might help. Need to Quit Smoking? Hello, this is my second post and just a simple questions. It is caused by nicotine withdrawal and gradually lessens as your body adjusts to having no nicotine. Press J to jump to the feed. And I haven't had this issue with the dark phlegm long, maybe about 2 months and I really don't have a chronic cough . If what you are coughing up is brown or black, you are most likely a heavy smoker." Of course the most sensible theory for most would - you're reaching the age where "big fat bong rips" should be left to the youngins with iron lungs. But I'm happy and looking forward to a future where walking up a couple of flights of stairs no longer makes me winded or my heart pound in my chest like a sledgehammer. I put them down late September and switched to vaping exclusively. Stop smoking everything (weed, tobacco, everything) for a few months and it will go away. In general, the phlegmy cough should improve with time, and within a few weeks to a month it should clear up entirely. Sparkle, that's incredible. I quit smoking cigarettes years ago, happy to share some insight and experience with others so that you can eventually quit too. Congratulations on quitting! Try to stop their usage for a few days and see if the black specs reduce. This can occur in situations where bacteria in your mouth travel down to your lungs and trigger an inflamed cavity of pus. Its completely fine to notice brown specks in your phlegm within a few weeks of quitting smoking since it involves a natural clean-up process initiated in your body to detoxify. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Can you clean out your smoky lungs in a natural way? While brownness in phlegm could point at many possibilities, the coincidence that youve just quit smoking could narrow down the cause to simply one. It is not unusual for people who have taken the . Usually the condition resolves on its own with home care. Aspergillus fungus is commonly discovered in plants, soils, and rotting vegetation. This allows the tar to enter the lung. In severe cases, you may need a lung transplant. I cringe when I read some "know it all" suggesting ecigs more dangerous than smoking nonsense. It might be frustrating in the early stages of smoking cessation, but dont worry- think of it as a sign of your progress! You can also help out by allowing yourself to cough. Every persons body is different, and the speed at which your lungs recover- and therefore how quickly you recover from your cough- is largely dependent on how much you smoked and how long you smoked for. After the initial spit or 2 it stops. so, it is easy, if this bothering you if this irritates your lungs than stop smoking weed. I took a total cold turkey break for about 20 days when the amount coughed up seemed to have 'peaked' about 3-4 weeks ago, and the amount seemed to slowly lessen each day. If you live in a particularly cold environment or the weather has been particularly dry of late, you could even consider using a humidifier in your home. Congrats. JavaScript is disabled. What is the best method of quitting smoking? This might go on for a few weeks. Please note, we cannot prescribe controlled substances, diet pills, antipsychotics, or other abusable medications. If you cant cough it out, infection can set in and form a cavity. I quit smoking 65 days ago. Once they can do their job right, you might start to cough up brown mucus from the tar youve inhaled over time. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Emphysema is a tough diagnosis to have, because it is not reversible Is it normal to cough up yellowish grey mucus chunks after quitting smoking? Coughing up dark brown gunk is your body's way of ridding your lungs of as much of the lung-irritating (and injurious) pollutants from your cigarettes as possible. Adults with CF often may cough up mucus thats tinged with blood. Although its not a common side effect of smoking cessation, some people do report developing a cough in the early days of quitting. It thins out your mucus and clears your airways, making breathing in easier. If youre allergic and breathe it in, it can inflame your lungs. Home remedies like sipping a bit of honey and physical activity too can help soothe your phlegm. you should get that checked out. and after how much time i should consult a doctor? When you smoke, impurities build up in the lungs. Brown Brown phlegm that appears 'rusty' is often a sign of old blood in the mucus. From what I have seen there are pretty decent amounts of resin that come from burning/smoking marijuana, specifically high quality marijuana, and by looking at the inside of a thoroughly used marijuana pipe of any kind. How to reduce bad moods when quitting smoking? Worth the price of admission. Required fields are marked *. Bottom line, I imagine your system is clearing. Thus, this being a harmful habit is always advisable by doctors to be quit as soon . Long-term smoking will cause permanent damage to the lungs in the form of emphysema and chronic bronchitis, which together make up a common condition known as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). Cigarette smoking damages the lungs in a variety of ways 5. Improvements to lung function and reversal of damage begin to take place almost immediately when you stop smoking, and these benefits continue for years -- an example of the human bodys remarkable ability to heal itself. Hi All, I switched to vaping on 17th Jan 2014. Its been 2 months after quitting smoking and still occasionally coughing brown phelgm.is this a dangerous sign or shud i wait till it stop. Brown phlegm is less common. Had a really bad bout of bronchitis about 2 years ago. Edit; WebMD & the like will have you diagnosed with Anthrax for the symptoms of a common cold. I relapsed though recently and smoked four 4 months but quit again and have now have not had a cigarette in 3 months. For these, please consult a doctor (virtually or in person). I am a 21-year-old male. In terms of treatment, youll need antibiotics to get rid of the bacteria and cough medicine to soothe your rough cough. Educational text answers on HealthTap are not intended for individual diagnosis, treatment or prescription. A phlegm is a type of mucus that is created within your chest. Symptoms worsen, docs dont rlly help.
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